Author Topic: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!  (Read 1686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tom F

  • Can't shut me up
  • ****
  • Posts: 2531
  • Gender: Male
  • You have the world at your fingertips
    • View Profile
    • My Sony Alpha Photos
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2010, 01:41:00 PM »
The other day my wife was looking at some pictures that she had taken with the a350 and kit lens.  She asked why do my pictures always look so blurry.  To me they didn't look half bad so I didn't say anything.  Shortly, she said well maybe if I put my glasses on.  Then she stated now that's a lot better. 

Offline Mike (Senior)

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Gender: Male
  • NAPP Member
    • View Profile
    • NAPP
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2010, 04:14:22 PM »
SSS is always on. I should try with it at OFF position. Lens used is the kit lens, so it could be that i am expecting a bit too much.
Which popular alternatives are there as for sharp lenses for the A300?

Do you want help or not?

Please provide some example photos and the settings that was used.
Shutter speed, aperture, ISO, hand held, etc...
What focus setting are you using? Spot, local, wide
What is the shutter speed on the blurry images? 1/250, 1/10, 4 seconds
What aperture is being used? 3.5, 5.6, 16

You are wasting your time and our time if you can not give us examples and settings from the said blurry images.
Trying to help but getting nowhere with you.



Without anything to go on I am going to say that the problem is the operator.
NAPP Member | KelbyTraining Alumni

Offline Glank27

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2010, 04:19:45 PM »
sorry mike but its pointless to provide you with one sample when the problem pops up in various settings. Speed is never slower than 1/60sec. aperture varied from 5.6 to 9 or 11 in most shots. focus mode has been tested with the three settings.......

i can provide you with samples with various settings.......and frequently same problem is noticed. i firmly believe its a camera limit rather than the user......Must have purchased a Canon straight away.
Sony A300 Dslr, DT 18-70 lens; SAL75300 lens.

Offline Mike (Senior)

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Gender: Male
  • NAPP Member
    • View Profile
    • NAPP
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2010, 04:36:27 PM »
So provide a number of samples.

Also are you judging this on 100% view on screen?

Jumping ship to canon because of focusing problems would be bad, might try nikon instead.

I think the problem may be that you feel buying this dslr should make every image you take a perfect tack sharp image and that is not going to be the case, would not be the case regardless of what camera you use, the pros don't even shoot 100%.
You are obviously just starting out, so if you get 1% of your shots perfectly focused and tack sharp at 100% view than you should be happy.
Just relax and enjoy the learning curve that you are in for regardless of what camera you use, but if you do jump ship to another camera go nikon not canon.

You want to get more shots in focus, here is the secret, shoot tons of pictures, I mean tons of them.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:34:01 PM by Mike (Senior) »
NAPP Member | KelbyTraining Alumni

Offline Glank27

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2010, 05:11:04 PM »
That sounds like a more "calm" answer Mike. Yes i only notice the problem at 100% sized resolution, so its not a big evident problem, but i was expecting a much more sharp result.
I will take some more pics and maybe post a crop sample to view for you....
Sony A300 Dslr, DT 18-70 lens; SAL75300 lens.

Offline Glank27

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2010, 06:19:48 PM »

Sorry but couldn`t post the 100% resolution....photobucket resizes the photos uploaded. Anyhow this photo shows our kid. It was taken with F5.6 and 1/125sec. Aperture priority and ISO 100. As it isn`t a 100% enlarged view, it isn`t much evident the softness but you can see this in the baby`s eye brows which look soft even in this smaller sized resolution.


Sony A300 Dslr, DT 18-70 lens; SAL75300 lens.

Offline AScot

  • Global Moderator
  • Can't shut me up
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2010, 09:11:09 PM »
That softness probably has nothing to do with the UV filter.  I would say that is about OK and quite normal for a kit lens. I have enlarged your photo to twice it's size and it looks soft but not out of focus. Just the kit lens to blame I think. Perfectly good enough for 4' x 6'" prints.

If you still think it is the filter take a photo with and without and post them. BTW, Photo-bucket does not resize your uploaded photo unless you upload one that is way above their maximum (about 1024 pixels I think). You should always upload a photo that is 800 pixels on the longest side for posting on this forum as anything larger will be resized by our software and the quality will suffer. That is what is happening with your photo. It is 1,023px × 685px (scaled to 800px × 535px). The scaling is our softwares handiwork and it does a poor job. Note that your photo is 210.37 kB in file size, our maximum allowed is 200KB.

I suggest that you go to a photo store and ask to use a reasonably good quality lens and take some photos with it and your kit lens, both without the filter. At home, edit the photos to your satisfaction and do not sharpen them. Resize them to 800 pixels on the longest side and 200KB max and upload to Photobucket. Post them here and we will have a shot at them. Remember our limit per post is 5 photos. You can legally cheat by making two or more posts. :D

Good luck.
AScot.
Sony A850/A700|Sony VG-C90AM/VG-C70AM|SAL70300 G SSM|SAL1680CZ|Minolta 300mm f4 HS APO G|Minolta 100mm f2.8 Macro|Min 500mm f8 Reflex|Min 50mm f1.7|Min 70-210mm f4|Tamron SP 24-135mm|Sigma 21-35mm|Minolta 1.4x APO TC|5600HS(D)|5400HS|Manfrotto Tripod & Mono-pod|

Offline Glank27

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2010, 06:44:53 PM »
Here`s another photo in which the  problem was encountered once again. At frst glance, especially at this re-sized dimension it doesn`t look much like a bad picture. But upon enlarging it 100%, baby`s face is really soft. It can be seen at this size by looking at the hair at the back of the head of the child. It is evident it is soft. I cannot figure out what`s happening. I might believe its the lens, but other photos in same session turned sharp in an acceptable way.
Aperture F8, Speed 1/100, ISO 100, Focusing mode: Wide


« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 06:47:33 PM by Glank27 »
Sony A300 Dslr, DT 18-70 lens; SAL75300 lens.

Offline Mike (Senior)

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Gender: Male
  • NAPP Member
    • View Profile
    • NAPP
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2010, 07:09:02 PM »
ok, so in the picture shown
what focus area mode, wide, spot or local?
if wide, then we really can not be sure that the camera hit the eyes
if local, then you had control of where the focal point was, was it on the eyes?
same with spot, if it was on spot then we would assume that the center of the image would be the sharpest spot, if you didn't' do the focus then recompose method

next, aperture
f5.6 is not a bad aperture to use however it's not the best either, they say the sharpest aperture on any given lens is f8, i can not confirm or deny this but I can say that at f8 you will have a better chance of getting the eyebrows in sharp focus when focusing on the eyes versus f5.6
i would have to assume this is more so when using the kit lens, there is nothing wrong with using that lens, just understand that you may have to use it at a smaller aperture to get the sharp results that you want. (also I am assuming you know that the bigger the f number the smaller the aperture, which means the less light coming into the camera, the smaller the number the greater depth of field, which is the more that is in focus, but you know all this already so I'll move on)

also it's good to understand that you need more light when using a smaller aperture, so f8 is going to require more light than f5.6 and light is what this is all about.
i can see you used the flash, on camera flash i am going to assume, 1/125th isn't the fastest shutter speed you can use with your camera, 1/160th i believe is the fastest you can get with the on camera flash on the a300. so 1/160th will give you a little better chance to freeze the subject, you may need to shoot in shutter priority mode or manual mode to get the camera to select that shutter speed.
another thing to think about is auto focus mode
single shot locks focus when you depress the shutter button down half way and will not change until you release and depress again
automatic will try to determine if your subject is moving and if the camera thinks the subject is moving it will try and keep the subject in focus
continuous mode camera will assume that you subject is moving and will continuously adjust focus to what it thinks it should be.
so understanding those modes of focus will help determine what mode you should be using for any given situation, in the above photo single focus i think would be appropriate, as they are probably not going to be moving too much
also it's possible to have your camera setup to release the shutter even if the camera hasn't locked focus, but i do not think that is the case.
also remember that every lens has a minimal focus distance, it could be inches or feet depending on the lens, so if you happen to be to close to your subject the lens itself may not be able to focus where you want. 0.38 meters(1.25 feet) on the 18-70mm

shooting in manual mode is going to give you better results in the end, it will take some effort on your part but in the end the pay off will be what you want. don't let the camera decide what is best for you. choose what focus area you want to use, choose the focus mode you want to use, choose the aperture you want and choose the shutter speed you think you will need, take a test shot and adjust from there, when using your flash remember you can control the output, so if you feel you need to crank down the aperture to f11 to get the sharp image but your photos are dark, crank the flash compensation up or better yet get a nice flash unit, but that can come later and should come later once you master the gear you already have. same with lenses, don't run and get a new lens until you understand what your lens IS capable of first. every lens has it's strengths and weaknesses.

and the most important piece of advice other than shoot tons of pictures is stop pixel peeping your images at 100%.

also understand that if shooting raw the images coming out of your camera will need some sharping applied to them, and i do hope you are shooting raw and learning how to process your images.
do you know how many photographers it takes to sharpen an image in post processing? One, and then there are 99 more telling you another way to do it. Sharpening is a whole subject by itself and one you should look into if you haven't already.

if not shooting raw then you are not using your camera the way it should be used, it's like buying Ferrari and not taking it out of first gear, same if you are shooting in Auto, manual mode will give you full control and you will learn how to use your camera.

as far as SSS on or off, leave it on until your shutter speeds hit 1/500th and above or shooting on a tripod, the a300 doesn't have MLU, mirror lock up, so turning it off while on a tripod may give better results in some situations but the mirror itself will give some vibrations so leaving it on may actually help with the a300 on a tripod, but this really depends on the tripod and if you are using a cable release or the timer, but that's a whole subject on it's own.

hopefully some of this post and others posts help you along your way, but do yourself a favor and have fun and don't worry about your images looking sharp at 100% view on your screen

so your latest photo may be the answer to all this, focus area wide, you are letting the camera decide where to focus, you need to be in control, so use spot or use local, spot is easiest to deal with, aim the spot at the eyes, hit shutter button half way down then recompose then hit shutter button the rest the way down, will see better results.
NAPP Member | KelbyTraining Alumni

Offline Glank27

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2010, 07:35:56 PM »
Thanks mike for your time to explain all this. Actually all the technicalities you explained are not new as i am into photography 15 years now. But shooting scene of crime photography on Minolta film cameras, and seeing the printed result on a 6x8 photo paper is one thing, and getting into dSLR and viewing the result at 100% scale with just a click of a mouse is another. This makes you more aware of what you`re really doing, not as in the case i have at work.
For the time being i am shooting Jpegs, as i`d like to have some in-depth tutorial with PS software. I obviosly am aware of the greater flexibility it gives a RAW file over a Jpeg one.

Thanks for the time being. And yes, i`m agreeing that spot-focusing with recomposing will give better results at then end.
Sony A300 Dslr, DT 18-70 lens; SAL75300 lens.

Offline ronnie_space

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2010, 11:31:10 PM »
Hi Glank,

I have owned an A350 for 6 months. After shooting on Auto for the first month as I got to grips with the camera I noticed sometimes pictures weren't as sharp as I wanted, in particular 'where' I wanted. 

I turned off the eye start auto-focus and I switched to spot focus mode, which I use 90% of the time now.. and I get much better results.

This way you have to consciously aim the centrespot of the view finder at the point you want to be sharp, press the button half-way, the camera locks onto the desired point and makes a bleep noise and you see the effect of it focusing on this point, recompose if neccesary,  then fire!  Kabooom!

On the 18-70mm lens, I can get very sharp results (viewed at 100%) on a tripod using a trigger or timer and stopping down the aperture a couple of stops.  Less sharp, but still fine by hand.

It's very easy to pixel peep at 100% in the world of digital and I also think there's nothing wrong with that! Although, my advice would be just don't get too consumed by it and take a chance to make some good quality prints of your images,  if you haven't done already, it certainly put things in perspective for me.

Ronnie

« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 11:33:40 PM by ronnie_space »
Sony A350, HVL42AM, 50mm F1.4, 70-300G, Tamron 17-50mm.

Offline nesneros

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 52
  • Gender: Male
  • PhotoN00b
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2010, 04:05:10 PM »
When you blow your image up to 100% on a computer, depending on your monitor, the screen resolution and so forth the image may look "blurry" or pixelated a bit because of the monitor itself.  I have noticed this when viewing images on my Laptop (which is actually really new) but then switch to my desktop and the problem goes away for the most part.  I can also then get an image printed whether it be a 4x6 or 20x30 you won't notice the "pixelation".  A lot of it could be caused by your monitor and/or computer.
a100 | Sony 18-200/3.5-6.3

Offline pjjohnson

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • Gender: Male
  • East Sussex, UK
    • View Profile
    • A Photographers Wildlife
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2010, 07:56:05 PM »
Hi,

Sony A350 with 18-70mm lens:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter-johnson/4382994032/
F/6.3
1/125s
ISO-100
50mm


100% crop

I replaced the kit lens with the 16-105mm DT which comes with the A700.

Does this help at all?

Peter.
A550 & A350 - Sony AF DT 18-55 SAM (A550 kit) - Sony AF DT 18-70 F3.5-5.6 (A350 kit) - Sony AF DT 16-105mm F3.5-5.6 - Sony AF 75-300 F4.5-5.6 (A350 kit) - Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG Macro - Tamron SP AF 200-500 F5-6.3 Di LD IF A08

My Flickr

Offline Glank27

  • Regular Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2010, 08:20:07 PM »
pjjohnson, you convinced me its a limit of the DT 18-70. Today i did some shots with the SAL75300 lens, and i`m very happy with the results. Quite sharp for its price.

How did the DT 16-105 that comes with the A700 compare with the Dt 18-70?
Sony A300 Dslr, DT 18-70 lens; SAL75300 lens.

Offline pjjohnson

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • Gender: Male
  • East Sussex, UK
    • View Profile
    • A Photographers Wildlife
Re: Out of focus images with UV filter...Updated!!
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2010, 11:28:27 PM »
Hi Glank,

I thought it better to show you what I've found with the kit lens rather than wade into this discussion with more text.

I too have the SAL75300 lens and in good light it performs very well, especially as its so inexpensive. Of course it's auto-focus is fairly slow and noisy but for views and things it's excellent (I've even managed birds in flight).

The DT 16-105 is a good replacement in my view. It's not 100% crisp or good in low-light but its accurate, smooth and quite fast on auto-focus. I've used it for portrait and landscape views, a recent example below:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter-johnson/4197129429/sizes/o/in/set-72157613275615604/
F/5.6
1/160s
ISO-200
105mm

Incidentally I take most of my pictures with Aperture priority and Spot metering, with SSS on and +2 on image sharpness (in the "creative" menu option I think). I don't take any photos in RAW. Also wide-angle views at 100% crop always look "pixelly" to me. I've tried Nikons and Canons and in my opinion they are all very similar at 100% crop.

Hope this helps you,

Peter.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 11:33:23 PM by pjjohnson »
A550 & A350 - Sony AF DT 18-55 SAM (A550 kit) - Sony AF DT 18-70 F3.5-5.6 (A350 kit) - Sony AF DT 16-105mm F3.5-5.6 - Sony AF 75-300 F4.5-5.6 (A350 kit) - Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG Macro - Tamron SP AF 200-500 F5-6.3 Di LD IF A08

My Flickr