Author Topic: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?  (Read 5542 times)

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middletonduff

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Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« on: October 05, 2008, 06:16:57 PM »
We have seen with the Clive issue, regarding A photo donated to a museum, of a Bison, yet another amazing photo. The important issue is how to print and display this image to its maximum potential. So the choice of what paper/printer (professional) is crucial. But with the advent of digital frames arriving, could the days of traditional printing be coming to an end? High definition television is becoming more accepted, especially here in the U.K. We now have High definition outputs available on the A350 and A900. So the logical progression is going to be High Definition Picture Frames, but on a professional scale. i can see art galleries producing images on this format, showing a whole new level of clarity, which, in my opinion is already here. As a forum, I would welcome what your view on this subject is? Moreover, do you have a digital photoframe? How do you use it and to what degree do you think it will change the way we view images in the future. No sponsers here I promise, I would like a genuine discussion concerning this issue. Now, let's talk! O0
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 06:30:29 PM by middletonduff (MD) »

Offline fother

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 10:37:13 PM »

Print is a long way from dead. A very long way.

I haven't bothered with a digital photo frame - they're nowhere near the quality of photographic prints so far, though in the next 5 years maybe they will be, but there will still be a place for print, in my view (and really, that's what it's about - if enough people still want print, it survives).

Way too soon to be calling the demise of print, IMO.

Offline Stef.

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 11:49:05 PM »
It appears to be a fact that since the advent of digital there is a decline of printed images/material. Very clearly these days people download their images to a computer and then they get too lazy usually to actually go to a shop/ transmit them online and get them printed or print them at home. It is also a fact that traditional printed images (wet method/ traditional darkroom) have gained in value since the advent of digital cameras. (Look at the last auction results of Steichen's/ Stieglitz's images- but not only the old masters' also younger ones i.e Andreas Gursky's were paid for with over one million (!!!) dollars. Because there is a decline in printed images (also books to some extent- lot's of people publish online these days) gallerists can achieve more money for them. It is furthermore a fact that these days the dissemination of images is much easier be it through internet/ digital frames/ CDs.... and other ways of distribution. Nevertheless all these electronic versions of images need some kind of compression which is influencing the quality of the image (slides are still in my opinion the highest quality achievable- particularly medium format slides). Also we have these days what is called "information pollution" and "image pollution"- vast amounts of images circulating where it gets trickier and trickier or perhaps more correctly more tiring to "filter" those.

I am personally a fan of printing my own stuff and have seen in the past when you deal with galleries that the good old image goes a very long way in getting your foot into a door. Also most publishers still prefer to look through a 10 page portfolio map than having to deal with your cds.
I think horses for courses. I have given my Mum a digital frame and set the slide duration to 1 minute. I have loaded all the images that I found nice of her children and grandchildren and she loves it. BUT one of the biggest issues we have is that a lot of the images we have shot over time disappear somewhere on our harddrives and while i.e. the family might want to look through the occasional album they will be much more reluctant to search your hard drive...
This is a very interesting topic and there is a hell of a lot of new stuff going on out there- be it for virtual galleries; AV shows- generally speaking multimedia stuff. Some people have now massive digital frames in their livingrooms with all the prime works of Picasso, Dega, Monet and so on. Instead of looking at a painting they now look at an AV show of these masters...
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Offline sonyboy

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 09:50:50 AM »
Since going digital I have to admit that I haven't printed one picture in the last 2 years, bought a printer when i first went digital tried the test sheet thought it looked lousy didn't bother again. Got stacks of DVDs loaded waiting for printing but then another set of pictures come along which  make the earlier images irrelevant.Just like the boxes of old photo that i have got in the attic.
When I take shots of the grandchildren and family  i give out DVD'S to all of the family (most proclaim that would like a print of that one!), never seen to many in photoframes, most seem to be happy to look at them on the computer of TV.
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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 10:58:17 AM »
Well, in my situation, as long as there is a grandma on another continent, as as long as there is a granddaughter, there aren't enough trees in plantations.

Also, as I look around my neighbourhood, there are political posters, missing items notices (with pictures), shop front special offer displays, gift calendars with our own pictures some of us like to inflict on relatives at Christmas in lieu of a present (when I say 'us', I mean 'me').
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middletonduff

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2008, 05:21:59 PM »
Well the reason I asked, was as Stefa mentioned, the best way to really show the quality of your shots is by slide and projection. I wondered with the quality of Digital Picture Frames gathering as much speed in technology as T.V. and Cameras, especially with the coming of High Definition, then true Hi Def. Frames will become the norm, with the same Luminance as a slide. The trick here of course is that JPEG, for all its uses is not the best format to display big images. The noise issue I feel will be too much, however, other formats do exist, that can do the job easily. Manufacturers though take the view that a dedicated Digital Frame, simply wont be enough and that it will NEED an MP3 player, it WILL need an F.M. Radio receiver, and of course it WILL need .. A torch! I can see the time, in the not to distant future, viewing galleries of Large Digital Frames, displaying original works. It is my view that until the advent of "Digital Photography," the process of developing, setting and printing images have remained pretty much unchanged. These are exciting times, because WE are at the dawn of a newer age in photography and are manipulating and working on Raw photo's into real works of art, without the need for real training nor talent. Digital Framing, is going to be the real future, where you or I  will be delivering professional quality images for everyone to enjoy.. I will get off the soapbox now. Ha ha O0

Bluebear

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2008, 05:35:22 PM »
For me there is and never will be anything better than a printed image!  PI's are fine, but the best resolution/feel is in a print.  The beauty of digital is that you can take a lot more photos than you would with film, (and yes you can display them ALL on screen), but you then only need print the really good ones.  In the days of film (unless you processed your own) you had to print the entire roll, even if they were all rubbish.  Those days are gone!  For family albums or framed photos in the house, there is nothing to compare to a print!

middletonduff

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2008, 05:48:11 PM »
Agree with you on that score. Very selective. But where IS a good place for printing. This is a U.K. question unless anyone has tried the online variety? O0

Offline wildieswife

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2008, 05:49:20 PM »
There's no doubt that electronic imagery is fast becoming a more common way of viewing - even in the art gallery film and televisual set ups are now quite common.

We don't often print out but we have a pro A3 printer for when it's needed and access to larger printing at Garry's college.
The down side is that the quality supplied by outside printers is often iffy (unless you pay a lot) and printing at home is not exactly cheap either.
You don't need to print to sell these days either.

Having said that - a framed print always makes a good present and decorates the walls well - until the price of electronic frames gets a little more realistic.

  And I must say that those wild flower photos that Garry did looked tons better when they'd been tweaked , blown up and framed by the college photographic technician.
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Offline Stef.

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2008, 06:00:19 PM »
Quote
But where IS a good place for printing

There are plenty of pro-labs out there in the UK. I used "Flash" in London a lot - they even do your 6x4s for a "normal" price. Nevertheless the best way of printing is at home IMHO. If you have a callibrated workflow no lab in my opinion can beat that. Even if you buy something such as the picture mate from Epson you can make very good 6by4 prints at home. 135 prints cost you about £19.99. Just google "pro-labs" in your area and you will find plenty.
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Offline Rob aka [minolta mad]

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 08:31:29 PM »
Must agree with Stef,
You just cannot match what you can print at home with a calibrated monitor and a profiled printer.

I had got so frustrated with sending images to online labs and trying to make adjustment layers for colour discrepensies that in the end i virtually gave up.
Even printing at home was at times hit and miss.

Now my prints match exactly what i see on screen :-)



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Offline winjeel

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 11:57:12 PM »
What Rob said reminded me, that screen quality (pixel size and count) will be an issue for a very long time. Also, the screen gives out light, where as a matt print and a glossy print will be reflective, and that apparently gives better colour and resolution quality over that of a monitor. It would be quite far off into the future before we see a digital monitor scrolling pictures or digital picture frame showing fine art works in galleries.

However, my mother has a hundred picture frames, two digital pictures, and a picture calendar of her granddaughter all throughout her house.
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Offline Stef.

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2008, 12:35:59 AM »
Quote
It would be quite far off into the future before we see a digital monitor scrolling pictures or digital picture frame showing fine art works in galleries.

Nope- unfortunately this just happened in London. Paintings (!!!!!!) were shown not in frames but on monitors- Ronnie Wood's son (Rolling Stones) did it in his gallery... and yep before you say it... the apple and the tree....BUT I just love the Stones!!! (Banging my head to their overloud music in the background and hoping around my studio in a minute...)
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Offline Dr.Theo

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2008, 01:34:20 AM »
i just had two rolls of film developed and printed on 15x21 cm matte paper BW shot with kodak t-max100 fil, and i have to say that i was amzed at the quality and i hope that when i get to printing my digital images they can meet what i just recieved, (it doesnt hurt though that a few of the images appear to be a couple of the best ihave ever taken)
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Offline wildieswife

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Re: Is The End Of Print, Nigh?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2008, 02:14:15 PM »
I went to an exhibition at a provincial gallery near here and it consisted of around 20 screens all showing various Californians from the Orange County talking about their very strange obsessions. It was described as 'sculpture' as the tv screens were 3 dimensional....
Now I wonder how Ronnie's son managed the breakthrough in the art world? hmmmm......but  I like the Stones too - especially Gimme Shelter. A classic

Re printing - although we have an epson r2400 neither of us is a real expert and it doesn't get much use - Garry reckons we need a 'spider' (sorry Stef ;)) to improve the printing. It's just sitting there at the moment as we haven't had the need to print off recently - or the time. I feel guilty every time I look at it..... I suppose Xmas will see some printing off for pressies again though!
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