Author Topic: Monthly Challenge Voting  (Read 2454 times)

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Offline Faldrax

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Monthly Challenge Voting
« on: November 14, 2014, 01:21:07 PM »
With the Monthly Challenges returning, the question on what, if any, restrictions there should be on voting for the winner has arisen.

Currently, members are free to vote however they like - including voting for your own images as #1, 2 & 3 if you want.

My personal opinion is that this leads to a problem when selecting who to vote for.

I like the images I enter - that's why I entered them, but it is difficult to be objective when comparing them to the images others have entered.
Sometimes it's clear that there are other entries that I prefer - and that's fine, I'll happily vote for someone else's image that I think is better - but sometimes I find myself unsure between 2-3 images, including one of mine - and it's very difficult to be objective.

Do I pick mine (on the basis that it's close, so I might as well give myself the best chance of winning)?
Do I deliberately exclude mine (to ensure I am 'fair' to the others)?
Do I not vote as I can't make a decision?

My preference would be for a pair of rules that state;

1) You may not vote for your own image
2) You must vote to be eligible to win.

This would be simple to administer (the Mods have enough work to do, let's keep any rules simple for them!), would help make voting objective (as you would have no personal attachment to the images you considered).

The second of the rules ensures no-one can feel 'disadvantaged' by voting - without it if you enter you increase your chances of winning by not voting, which is not something we want.

What do people think?
Are you happy with things as they are?
Are there other rules you think might be appropriate?
Any other ideas on how we could improve the Monthly Challenges?
It is difficult to explain to white mice that black cats are lucky...

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Offline Frank [aka Wires]

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 09:29:55 PM »
Since I've been a member (2008?), the monthly challenges participants have seemed to dwindle in the number of members that have taken part and, possibly, the number of members that have/are voting for those images submitted - which I'm guessing was one reason to discontinue the challenges - ? To reinstate them will only be a good thing if the members become involved by participating; submitting & voting.

A cold sobering thought! A quick look shows six of us took part in the "Water" challenge...  you Faldrax, Rex, Chris82, retoohs, CHOLLY and me. The Home page shows a membership of 3,380. I wonder how many have voted... how many votes have been received? We only get to know which participant has been selected as number 1 and who came second and third... with possibly a close 4th - no numbers of votes cast for 1st, 2nd, 3rd. If only six of us voted in the water challenge and one of us got two votes for ONE image that may be the winning shot! :-[

You can't make members participate - or vote - be it in a monthly challenge or posting a new topic or comment on/answer any existing ones. You can only try and invite them to join in - which Ascot and chappo1 have done.

With that in mind I don't feel making "rules" regarding voting for the Monthly Challenge is warranted "at this time" - and my comment/comments is/are based on lack of information regarding how many of the membership do in fact take a part in the Forum - even if "silently" via PMs :)

I'll duck down out of the way to try and avoid any flack that may be coming my way...
Frank (aka Wires)
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The Dalai Lama said; “Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively”

Offline Faldrax

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 10:51:34 PM »
Frank - unfortunately I feel you may be right in respect of number of voters, and it's a real shame.

In fact, it is this potentially low level of voters that makes me feel the 'rules' I've suggested are needed.
With a very small voting pool, if you vote for yourself you might be doubling your score (or halving it if you do not).

By explicitly banning it you make the voting a level playing field, and remove the ethical dilemma that currently exists.

It is difficult to explain to white mice that black cats are lucky...

2 x A900/VG, A6000
CZ 16-35 f/2.8, Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 HSM, Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di USD, Sony 70-300G,
Tamron 150-600, Sony 50 f1.4, Minolta 85 f1.4 G RS, Sony 100 f2.8 Macro
Manfrotto 055CXPro3 + 410 Junior Geared head,
Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/36503683@N08/

Offline AScot

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2015, 03:50:13 AM »
I'm a bit late with this, sorry, but I'll give you the information I still have. :|

The only members to vote on the Challenge #3, October 2014, 'Water' were Faldrax, Rex, Chris82, CHOLLY, Frank, chappo1 and myself. The only member to enter but not vote was retoohs. So we had 6 entries and 7 votes, with each voter making a first, second and third choice. The information that I have shows that two out of the 5 votes I received, voted for themselves.

Over the years the above is quite par for the course. The number of votes being close to the number of voters plus the mods who were allowed to enter. The hosting mod normally cannot enter.

If we ever hold another challenge (which is unlikely as we may not be a forum much longer) then we will ask the membership for suggestions on how they would like us to run things.
Sony A7, A850, A77, A700 || Sony>> 70-300G, 28-75 f2.8 SAM, 16-80CZ, 50 f1.4, FE 28-70 OSS, FE 24-70CZ f4 OSS, LA-EA4 || Minolta>> 300 f4 G HS, 200 f2.8 G HS, 100 f2.8 (D) Macro, 50 f1.7, 28 f2.8, 28-135 f4-4.5, 70-210 f4, 500 f8 Reflex, TC x 1.4 HS, TC x 2 HS. || Sigma 21-35 f3.5-4.2. || Tamron SP 24-135.

Offline Frank [aka Wires]

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2015, 08:00:15 AM »
Charles

I am quite shocked - no, very shocked! - to read that it has been the norm for the members entering a challenge are the ones that 'usually' vote on the entries - very rarely other members... if at all? Shocking.

I have not been as much a regular poster/contributor lately as in the past :-[ - 'though I have returned on and off and made some comments when I felt (hoped!) I had something to contribute to a topic.

I've not been taking shots regularly either but when I have I haven't got round to editing/resizing to upload to Flickr and then link back to here... :-[

Come 2016 I'd hope to be more able to do so - retirement end of March :) - but your comment makes me think this forum may, by then, have gone the way of many others in the past. That would be very, very sad indeed :(
Frank (aka Wires)
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The Dalai Lama said; “Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively”

Offline chappo1

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2015, 10:57:49 AM »
Unfortunately Frank you are not alone in popping in occasionally.  That is part of the issue...john 
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Hector Berlioz

Offline Frank [aka Wires]

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 11:05:13 AM »
Understood John but the total membership is... far more than the few of us that do post - even if from time to time. However... I do post unlike many more that don't and I'd guess - even if it upsets some - that many never have!
Frank (aka Wires)
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The Dalai Lama said; “Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively”

Offline Chris82

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2015, 04:59:45 PM »
 It would be such a shame to lose the forum completely. Part of the reason i finally decided to join was the fact that it was a bit quieter and considerably more friendly than others i view on occasions and not full of the many who "know everything" and have an opinion on everything.

 There is lots of great info on here and everyone is on hand to help with questions when and if they are asked.

If the Forum does end up no more then i will probably not join another.

Offline AScot

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 11:55:00 PM »
The total membership is 3406 and does not include the many that have officially left or been banned. That count dates back approximately 10 years to when we started and many never post after joining. It's a shyness or feeling that they are an inadequate photographer type of thing, they can't get past making their first post in case they are laughed at or ridiculed. (It's not like face book, any fool and his brother can post there.) If you look at the member list you will see that one third to half of those that are still a member, never post. That fact holds true back to the day we started.

I am sure all forums have similar problems and photography forums more than most, due to the assumption that photography is difficult (it is) and to the fear they may not measure up. Apparently, Dyxum is also slower but they have the lens database that helps them enormously. Other forums similar to ours are struggling or have already gone.
Sony A7, A850, A77, A700 || Sony>> 70-300G, 28-75 f2.8 SAM, 16-80CZ, 50 f1.4, FE 28-70 OSS, FE 24-70CZ f4 OSS, LA-EA4 || Minolta>> 300 f4 G HS, 200 f2.8 G HS, 100 f2.8 (D) Macro, 50 f1.7, 28 f2.8, 28-135 f4-4.5, 70-210 f4, 500 f8 Reflex, TC x 1.4 HS, TC x 2 HS. || Sigma 21-35 f3.5-4.2. || Tamron SP 24-135.

Offline chappo1

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 12:27:23 AM »
For the record- I have refused to join Facebook and that hashtag thing so cannot even see our daughters Facebook page.

It would be sad to see the forum go but the world will go on.  Like you Chris- I only look on those angry ant forums when Mr google directs me there when I have a query.  I think I am a member of a couple but have never posted as I cannot be bothered arguing with folks who know everything.

The best means I can think of to save this forum is for everyone who is a member to post something-. an image of your big toe , the clouds, anything. But you had better be quick and be prepared to back it up and visit once a week.

john
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Hector Berlioz

Offline REX (aka TG)

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 05:34:03 AM »
Me too I have no Facebook and I will not. If someone want to contact with me can send me an e-mail. If some want to see information about cameras/Photos can visit a dedicate forum like our Dynax digital.

I want to have my privacy and not all people know where I was and what I have done that day.

I hope for better days here but as John says if we all visit ones a week then we will see more traffic in our forum.

Personally I am coming back more intensive (never left) just some family problems with health.

Hope for health and  our forum will manage to overcome these difficult time
aSLT/SLR/NEX,DYNAX

Offline Frank [aka Wires]

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2015, 11:01:58 AM »
The total membership is 3406 and does not include the many that have officially left or been banned. That count dates back approximately 10 years to when we started and many never post after joining. It's a shyness or feeling that they are an inadequate photographer type of thing, they can't get past making their first post in case they are laughed at or ridiculed. (It's not like face book, any fool and his brother can post there.) If you look at the member list you will see that one third to half of those that are still a member, never post. That fact holds true back to the day we started.

I had the same 'problem' as a Falconry group 'owner' over on Yahoo Groups years ago - as did all the other groups no matter what they'd been set up for. I got the feeling that the majority joined because they hoped to learn gems from others that posted - without joining in the discussions.

Quote
I am sure all forums have similar problems and photography forums more than most, due to the assumption that photography is difficult (it is) and to the fear they may not measure up. Apparently, Dyxum is also slower but they have the lens database that helps them enormously. Other forums similar to ours are struggling or have already gone.

Agreed. ALL forums/discussion groups are the same - even on Facebook & Twitter. As said above, I feel they join in the hope of collecting gems of wisdom without asking and they then become 'bored' with seeing the same names posting all/most of the time. Then those posting get named as the 'know it alls' and, like you say, that then puts the others off and they then leave the membership in place and go off searching for some other forum/group/social media...

I even tried sending out a monthly "encouragement" post in attempt to get the 'lurkers' to post but eventually gave up on that :(

Guess it is just something that Forum/Group owners need to bear in mind and decide if they can accept it, not take it as something 'personal' and how long they will put up with it before calling it a day - especially if it is costing 'them' money!

Fingers crossed we keep going :)
Frank (aka Wires)
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Offline Faldrax

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Re: Monthly Challenge Voting
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2015, 01:43:17 PM »
It would be a real shame if the forum closed - I regularly visit Here, Dyxum, AV Forums Photography and Talk Photography, but this is the forum I post photos to because I know I will get honest, and helpful comments from the great folks that are members here.

re the votes - I am also shocked (and saddened) that the number of votes was so low, and that it was only those directly involved that voted.

It is difficult to explain to white mice that black cats are lucky...

2 x A900/VG, A6000
CZ 16-35 f/2.8, Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 HSM, Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 Di USD, Sony 70-300G,
Tamron 150-600, Sony 50 f1.4, Minolta 85 f1.4 G RS, Sony 100 f2.8 Macro
Manfrotto 055CXPro3 + 410 Junior Geared head,
Flickr : http://www.flickr.com/photos/36503683@N08/